Today, I’m talking to Miranda Featherstone about how we can talk to our kids about sex. This one is a good listen, or if you prefer reading the transcript is below!
But we actually spent a lot of that conversation talking about kids and sex, or how to talk to kids about sex. And then when I sat down to try to think about writing about those things, I realized that I more or less just wanted people to be able to listen to that conversation. So I’m just trying to replicate our coffee conversation. So … great!
I think of this big underlying question as just, How can I discuss sex and where babies come from with my kids in a way that works for me and works for them? So that’s the big overarching starting point, but I actually want to be super-concrete to start. So, we’re in the car. My 3-year-old says, Mommy, how did the baby get in your tummy? And I want you to tell me what to say.
So you do actually want them to know about sex, because you don’t want them to hear about it from that kid who’s in their class who’s going around telling everybody what a blow job is in second grade. You know, those kids are real, they’re out there, they exist! You are going to be better equipped to explain sex and sexuality to your kids than that kid.
But then the other piece of it — and you and I talked a lot about this in the first conversation, and I think you really changed how I was thinking about it — the second piece of it is the idea of sex, and not just penetrative vaginal sex but sex activities in general, as something that people do for fun. And I’d love you to just talk a little bit about how one navigates communicating that aspect of this in ways that are going to vary across families.
“Sex” is one way that we talk about whether someone is born with a vulva or a penis. “Sex” is one way that people make a baby — there are also other ways. And “sex” is something that people do to feel good in their bodies. And maybe to connect with other people. Helping kids to see that there’s this one very short word that means all those different things is really important. And I think that that’s an appropriate body of knowledge for elementary schoolers to be grappling with.
And the idea that sex is something that people do to feel good in their bodies — when you frame it like that, I don’t think that’s scary; I don’t think that’s intense; it’s not explicit at all. And it doesn’t mean that there won’t be follow-up questions that might feel scary to you or explicit, but presenting them with that one meaning of what sex is, is so important.
You know, most of the sex that most people have is not for reproductive purposes. So it’s very confusing, when we’re teaching kids about sex and sexuality, to yolk sex and reproduction and not break it down. You want kids to connect to these conversations. You want them to connect to the subject matter, and when we connect sex and reproduction and bind them together, we’re essentially saying that sex between two people who can’t make a baby isn’t sex. Or that sex that isn’t for reproductive purposes isn’t something that we can talk about. That’s not what you want.
And that is in some ways the way I experienced this, but I also can see from this conversation that that is not a super-productive way to do this. In part because as kids age, it is going to be more and more appropriate to introduce different pieces of the language and different pieces of what this means. And if we just have one conversation, it’s not going to be sufficient. And if the lines of communication are not open, it’s not going to be sufficient to have the conversations we need to have.
Kids also don’t take stuff in, in one conversation. I imagine any of us with verbal children have had the experience of being like, “You know, next week we’re going to Pittsburgh.” And the kid is like, “What? You never told me that.” And you’re like, “No, no, I for real did, we talked about this.” But it’s like, they need to hear things multiple times in different ways, sometimes from different people. And that’s true of driving to Pittsburgh. And it’s also true of, sex is something that people do to feel good in their bodies, or egg and sperm are what make a baby. Or everybody will die. Like, these are all things that you have to hear and process at each developmental stage.
So I’ll give you an example. I was talking to a fellow parent about this issue, and she explained that she was in quite a bad place on this, because she had told her kids about how babies were made in this very medicalized way. Which, as she got further down the road, ended up sounding like not only had she had IVF, which actually she hadn’t, but that that was how all babies were made. That, like, there’s always a doctor involved. And then at some point, her 8- or 9-year-old was like, “But wait, what about animals?” And she was like, “I didn’t know, I sort of changed the subject.” She had gotten into this place where it’s not exactly lying, but you then needed to back up and fill in. I guess then the answer is maybe you should be willing to say, “You know what, let me expand a little bit on this.”
And I think it’s really important for your kids to know what porn is and that it exists before they’re exposed to it. And I think a really important part of internet safety and sexual health and mental health is to prep your kids for hearing and seeing unsettling things about sex on the internet. And you can say, “Porn is not for kids. Porn is movies that grown-ups make of people having sex. And it’s not for kids. It’s not okay for kids to look at. It’s not designed to be educational. It doesn’t necessarily reflect reality.” And you can certainly share your own values at this moment; people’s values around porn differ quite a bit.
But you know, the main takeaway needs to be that it’s out there, it’s not educational, it’s not for kids, and it’s always something that you can talk to me about if somebody shows it to you or if you find it. If you see something, anything upsetting online, please let me know. I want to talk about it with you. You won’t be in trouble. I won’t be mad.
And you know, it’s tricky, because I think your approach and mine in helping parents to navigate the world of dangers to children is very similar in a lot of ways. I think we really want to help people understand what the actual risks are as opposed to the things that we all can work ourselves into a panic over. And I don’t want to be fear-mongering, but I do think that sexual abuse or encountering really yucky, scary things online are things that we should worry about our kids experiencing.
And you don’t have to feel chill when you talk about this stuff; you just have to fake it. You don’t have to actually be like, “Oh my gosh, this is so relaxing to talk to my kid about masturbating with a hoagie.” But you do have to make it a conversation that they’re going to be up for returning to.
Speaking of uncomfortable potential conversations — when I asked people for questions about this, one thing that came up a lot is, what if my kids see me having sex with my partner? Whether that’s their dad or mom, it’s just like, what if the kids walk in? What do you say?
And I think advocating within your children’s schools for comprehensive healthy sexuality education for all students, starting in fourth grade. I think it’s really important that kids have some information about sexuality and puberty before most of them are going through it. And I think it does a lot towards leveling the playing field in terms of kids giving each other information or misinformation. But I also think it can help to create a really positive culture as kids head towards middle school, in terms of talking about consent, talking about gender and sexual orientation, and just talking about how we talk about sex.
One activity that I do when I teach sex ed with late elementary schoolers is to ask them to reflect on, what are the different things you need consent for? And one of those is making a joke about sex. Do you need someone’s consent to make a joke about sex? And I don’t come down with a hard-line answer for them, and I’m not trying to shame them and make them feel bad — middle schoolers and fifth graders, they joke about sex; that’s developmentally appropriate. But I do want them to think about when we talk about sex with other people, how does that impact them? How do gender dynamics play into that? How do power dynamics play into that? These are all conversations that can be supported by a sex ed curriculum. And I think that having that opportunity in school also helps kids to be more media-savvy, helps them to think more about messaging about body images, or it can if it’s thoughtfully done.
And the other big bonus of sex ed in school is that it offers your child an educated, trustworthy adult whom they can ask these questions of.
So I think there’s definitely a lot of work that parents can do. A lot of schools don’t offer sex ed or don’t push it in elementary grades because they’re worried about parents’ responses. And when they hear from parents, no, this is something we actively want — yes, it will make us uncomfortable, but we really do want it — administrators are much more likely to, if they’re able to, put that in the curriculum.
Emily:
Thank you so much for joining me. I’d love to ask you to just briefly introduce yourself before we get started.